Thursday, September 11, 2008
From 9/10: Getting to Know Socrates
Through the Clouds and the Euthyphro, we got a good feel for the person of Socrates -- how he was perceived, how he argued, what he took to be important, and perhaps even why he was put to death. We also talked a bit about piety, a topic which ceratinly deserves some more attention. So let us know what you're thinking after Wednesday night's class.
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Socrates was a less than attractive man that loved being around people. He was known for his service in the Athenian military and was a member of the jury of 500 for a year. Socrates was cared most about the goodness of people and the pursuit of happiness. He told people to look within themselves and not to the gods. However, Socrates never denied the gods. Socrates tried to separate himself from the now-called Pre-Socratics that spent their energy with scientific matters in nature. Socrates never wrote anything down. He taught in public places but never took money for his teachings. He was eventually put to death for corrupting the youth and denying the gods. It is believed that he was not guilty of these acts, but was used as a scapegoat for the Athenian government because of the tough times. In Plato’s Euthyphro, Socrates discusses piety with a man that is prosecuting his own father for murder. Euthyphro and Socrates never come to an agreement on what piety actually is. This story is an example of the Socratic method of asking questions and using the inferior argument to falsify the superior.
Socrates’ arguments against Euthyhro’s definitions of piety reminded me of Socrates role in The Republic. Before he was able to have the conversation he wanted, he needed to get rid of all of the people who were involved in the previous conversation. He tends to go in circles during his conversations and arguments, causing people to get frustrated and end the conversation, as Euthyphro does after Socrates rejects all of his definitions of piety. Although this is a reason people got frustrated with Socrates and why they didn’t like him, he causes people to think in ways that they are not familiar with. It can be very annoying, but possibly that was just his way to get people to think in a different and a more in- depth way. All of Socrates arguments against the definition of piety were reasonable, and although a concrete definition of piety was not formed, a lot was still learned about piety. It leads us to the question of whether or not what is good and pious should be decided by the gods or by ourselves. It seems that Socrates is trying to force Euthyphro to consider that piety has nothing to do with the gods, and it should be decided within the individual. Socrates was not interested in the gods or in nature, but the individual was the object of his study and care.
The first thing I want to discuss is something I think many people might not have noticed or thought about, but it really caught my attention. During the first slide presentation Plato's Republic was mentioned, along with his definition of justice: "justice is the will of the stronger". That line completely captured me. It was as if I had never thought of it that way before. It reminded me of the quote from Orwell's 1984: "...who controls the present controls the past". These lines say, it is whoever is the most powerful will get their way, no matter what. Humanity made have a built in idea of justice, but the people in power are going to tell you what justice is. Just as a ruling party may "change" history to fit their needs, they can also change the fundmentals of justice, what is wrong and right, to fit their desires. I can't help but think that this still rings true today, despite all the ways we have of verifying information and bodies like the UN that supposedly keep governments from abusing power.
The second thought I have is a fairly quick one about Euthyphro. Near the end of class we identified and discussed the three definitions of piety that Euthyphro put forth to Scorates and why they were shot down. I think that if Plato could have given him another small argument/definition, one where Euthyphro explains what the gods get from humans in "trade." Obviously in Greek mythology the gods are pretty vain, and one could argue that they created humankind simply so they would have people to worship them. The gods give humans many things in trade for having their egos stroked everyday. I almost think the definition of pious behavior could be as simple as worshiping the gods. Of course, this doesn't support Euthyphro's decision to persecute his father, but its an intersting idea nonetheless I think.
The last class was interesting and I was able to learn some facts about Socrates that I had not known before. I find it amazing that we have no documents that were written by Socrates himself, but instead we have stories and descriptions of him through other people’s writings. Because of that fact, you have to consider what the real Socrates would have been like. I’m sure some details about him and his beliefs are not known because the only thing we know about him is based on other people’s views or works. I was surprised to learn that Socrates had served in the military. Before last week’s class, I always pictured Socrates as a peaceful, pacifist who would try to avoid violence. I was very naïve when it came to Socrates because I had never truly studied him before. I’m a philosophy major who plans on graduating in May and I didn’t know much about the early Western philosophers prior to this class. Hopefully after this semester I will be able to understand and explain Socrates’, Plato’s, and Aristotle’s theories/beliefs. I also found it interesting that Plato was born to nobility and yet he chose to join the “radical” thinkers/philosophers of his time. Normally when someone is born into money they ease through life and tend to follow the majority opinion. During the slideshows it said that Plato authored at least “24 dialogues of which Socrates is often the chief spokesman.” Going back to my earlier statement, I didn’t comprehend how critical Plato is in understanding Socrates.
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